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Post by chaos unleashed on Jun 13, 2005 2:55:44 GMT -5
I would if you were a girl. ;D lol well, yeah, its good to know God can never hate no one, fine- fair enough, but he can always be disappointed with his people doing wrong things, and I reckon homosexuality falls in it as well, I dont mind if homosexuals get married, or do anything else straight people will do ['cept of course to have sex with girls lol] coz I aint homophobic, but I am a strong beleiver of the bible, and I'd say im a fundementalist when it comes to the bible, it was inspired by God which means it has his teachings, and forbidding homosexuality is in the bible Old testament criteria: [this was when homosexuality was kind of new so STRICT laws that aren't neseccary nowadays are put in here] Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'" Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. New Testament criteria 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." so you see, if the bible is Godly inspired, I reckon we should at LEAST listen to what it has to say, but now becasue living in modern times, the old testament criteria SURE AS HELL has to be ignored, but have you noticed it doesn't say anything about how Homosexuals should be punished, its just stated, they, along with other wrong do'ers will not receive the kingdom of heaven, But I aint exactly gunna go up to a homosexual and say 'haha!! Your not gunna get into the kingdom of heaven!!' becasue thats kind of homophobic and the last thing I'd wanna do is hurt someone, so if both of you say the Church Bullshits, fine im not gunna argue it doesn't becasue I have strong beleifs about other biblical issues that the catolic church IMO is wrong about. What im trying to get is that you cant exactly say the Bible bullshits becasue that's kinda blashphemous involving a holy book with those words, plus, its Godly inspired so it has what God states on it
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Post by Red Exodus on Jun 13, 2005 7:27:55 GMT -5
The Bible was made by HUMANS mind you. No one ever said the men who wrote the Bible aren't faulty in their own ways.
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Post by gearultima on Jun 13, 2005 16:54:20 GMT -5
i love you red. what he said.(he is doing my job easyer)
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Post by booo on Jun 13, 2005 20:11:32 GMT -5
The Bible was made by HUMANS mind you. No one ever said the men who wrote the Bible aren't faulty in their own ways. In that case, why not take it a step further and say that everything in the bible was written by humans and is thus fictitious? In short, if we cannot trust the bible, what can we trust?
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Post by gearultima on Jun 13, 2005 20:40:42 GMT -5
lllllllllloooooooooooollllllllllllllllloooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllloooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllll. snuf*snuf*sorry snuf* ok lets get one thing straigth. no one is blaming you for trust in the bible,for the contrary.but like red said the bible was made by humans.so if you have fith HAVE IT FOR GOD HIMSELF NOT FOR A BOOK THAT WAS MADE BY A GUY THAT *SUPOSED*THAT IT WAS THE WILL OF GOD. the church is a bullsh**.the ones that are runing the most sacred of the places (vatican)are humans like us.so IT DOESNT MATER IF YOU HAVE FAITH AND THEY ARE USING YOUR FAITH FOR THEYR OWN GOOD.as far as i remember there was a scandal in my country (that is very religious)abaut the high priest been acepting briebs of bush for giving its bless in the war agains the iraq.if he acepted or no i got no idea SO THIS IS MY POINT TRUST GOD BUT NOT CHURCH OR BIBLE CAUSE THEY ARE MADE BY HUMANS HANDS.HANDS OF CUROPTION THAT WILL ONE DAY END US ALL. fushhhh.....i love wen i get like this.
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Post by booo on Jun 13, 2005 22:04:40 GMT -5
(snip: OMG H8 DA CHURCH AND DA BIBLE) You seem to be operating under the assumption that all Christians are Catholic. This is not true. I myself be of da protestantz. And I agree, the Catholic Church does have a lot of bullshit within it, including bucket loads of corruption. But that doesn't matter much to me. Since you don't seem to know much about it, you should read this article on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtestantPaying particular attention to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant#Basic_theological_tenetsSo yes, I do place my trust with the Bible, and if you find that so very hilarious you can... Nevermind ;)
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Post by chaos unleashed on Jun 14, 2005 3:20:45 GMT -5
Not a problem
okie dokie
Made by humans indeed, but it was God that was making them write, either through a dream or through mind- look at the Revelations written by John- It was a dream sent by God
Ummm....dude? the Bible is a library of many books written by many followers of God, the Gospel accounts I admit are slightly wierd becasue Mathew Mark and Luke are all similar, but John's book is totally different, so there is some meaning in what you and Red said. But John's interpretation of what he saw is what he wrote, fair enough he may have slightly changed the events he saw through his words, but its not like he did it to displease God, becasue you'd think that God would have done something about it.
I disagree completley, if its for their own good, they'd be rich as hell and keep the donations for themselves, but when the tsunami occured, it was people like CAFOD and CHRISTIAN AID who went down there before anyone within 24hrs and helped, not to say christians arrived first, but the money donated to CAFOD is what helped them get there and treat people, but your'e right about one thing- people do many things to save themselves, but dont you think if the current pope was/is like that, he would've not got chosen to be the Pope?? he wants what you I and many others want-Peace, no war etc etc
like you said yourself, we are all human, so mistake is bred into us, as is sin, and I DO know when priests do this, it is even worse for them as they are supposed to be God's messengers, but you have to ignore the media making such a big deal out of it- it was only ONE priest like you said, not like the whole church was doing it, just ONE priest in portugal to do it, ONE out of proably 200+ priests doesn't make the church evil or corrupted
How can 'new christians' or converts that are NOW christians, Kids and Children beleive God when they have no background of what people did to beleive in him, they;d have no way to worship him, nor will they find out about history, what God did for his peoplez to be called a 'God' his beleivers, his loved ones, his powers- They wont know what to belive if they dont trust the Bible, it IS like you said made by humans so may be wrong in certain places, but all the stories match up, Matheww Mark Luke and John ALL stated Jesus was resurrected, and he came to Earth, and if you wouldn't beleive in the bible, how can you beleive in God or know who he is in the first place?
More on to the topic, I feel that homosexuals do have a right to partake in stuff any other people do, but I dont see how they can worship, becasue most religions ban Homosexuality,
not to say its wrong, but putting 2 and 2 together aint that hard, we do have to look at religion to find out whether things are right or wrong, becasue Humans will always allow things that will either benfit them, or feel that it doesn't harm anyone nor if it's prejudice- most of which im fine with,
but imagine your brothers being homosexual, or your sisters, im no Einstein but im DAMN SURE you's would take a stand somehow
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Post by Red Exodus on Jun 14, 2005 8:35:34 GMT -5
The Bible in itself is not meant to be taken literally. It is only meant to show stories, myths, fables, and legends to basically give us guidelines to follow.
You don't HAVE to believe that Jesus is your savior. You just have to believe he's a good man who cared a great deal for people. Again, the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. It's just a book of lessons to teach people.
You don't HAVE to be of Catholic/Christian religion to be "saved". For ex, say there's an African aboriginee who worships a panther god. So long as that man is good to his neighbors and family, he will not be denied the kingdom of God.
The Church in itself yes, is sinful. Keep in mind that it was a MAN-MADE structure, thus it is very prone to sin, which is human nature. However, blame the messenger, not the message. The church overall is good, just that it has problems due to corrupt men.
The Bible is made by 4 men who each have their own views about God.
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Post by gearultima on Jun 15, 2005 18:54:43 GMT -5
chaos i hate to say you that the guy taking bribes was joao paulo 2 the pope itself. (you are giving me a too hard of a time zop) zop,you guys dont have this kind of things in your history clases cause you are not portuguese,but we once had a dictator calar salazar.he made every man converting to cristianism by force.i dont think that very faire. and portugal is one of the most religiouse cuntrys in the world.(taking iraq and macedonia) more to topic. actualy chaos that doesnt change a thing,i have a homosexual uncle and i am very close to him. the things may change but its for them cause he refuses to take his *boyfriends* to hour house for shame of been diferent (i think)
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Post by booo on Jun 16, 2005 3:53:36 GMT -5
No, his actions were not fair. What does that have to do with anything, though? I have a homosexual uncle, and one of my friends is also homosexual. Just to make things clear, I have no hate for homosexuals, though I do believe what they are doing is sinfull.
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Post by gearultima on Jun 16, 2005 16:36:55 GMT -5
now we are geting somewere,i think exactely like you exept of the sinfull part
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Post by chaos unleashed on Jun 18, 2005 4:46:18 GMT -5
well, Im like Zo, I have no hate for gays, but what they do is sinful.
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Post by gearultima on Jun 18, 2005 16:58:15 GMT -5
bhaaaa.ok if you think of that.........
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Post by chaos unleashed on Jun 20, 2005 16:58:17 GMT -5
yup, well, just think of this,
your in a mans toilet, and women walk in, against what you may beleive is wrong, but others accept it, so will you as well. I reckon thats a good analagy to put mine and Zo's opinion accross clearer, apologies if it doesn't
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RAIDE
Angel/Demon
Villiage Idiot[M:0]
Posts: 1,306
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Post by RAIDE on Jun 26, 2005 20:45:57 GMT -5
ok, i'm a little late buuut
first off, the Gospel of John wasnt written by John, but his followers
in fact, since it is written by a certain group of people who thought they were an elite group of people, it goes against the rules of books that are allowed into the bible, i forget why it was allowed in, but it was
and i have to agree, if you look at the church's history, it is full of greed and lies, so its not exactly something to agree with all the time (or most) but i think the Bible, which was created when religious beliefs were the most important thing (but not fanatical like it seems to be in some places) so what they were putting in then holds much more meaning than now
but in the bible (and in NATURE) it is obvious that men and women are supposed to be together, and although gay love is ok, the ACT of love between two people of the same sex is wroung, and is not meant to be
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